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  • in reply to: Relative TCM warmth of darker teas #9452
    Leo
    Participant
    The understanding of the different TCM properties of different tea is a developing knowledge. Most old school TCM doctors used to think of tea as two to three different categories and very broadly described them in one or two vague characters.
    Relatively few TCM professionals are studying the matters with seriousness, so there would be some disagreement amongst different individuals.
    It so happens that I am quite interested in TCM and have made some observation of the varieties of tea that I have came across that I have established some observations for a number of teas.
    I am thrilled when I read pancakes’ observation note. More interest and a feel for the subject matter will eventually push the study forward.
    Establishing a broad brush type of description saying green > lighter oolong > darker oolong > black tea etc is good for establishing an elementary idea for beginners. It is rather like saying all teas are made from the same plant. We all know in reality that the truth is a lot more complicated than this, but it is important for the general public to know that non-Camellia sinensis plant products are not tea.
    Pancakes is right that some green teas are “warmer” than others, but the difference lies not through whether they are roasted or baked, but rather the steepness of temperature through which the tea is cooked. For example Dinggu Dafang (roasted) is warmer than Kaihua Longding (baked), but Mengding Ganlu (roasted) is not as warm as Huangshan Maofeng (baked).
    However, and this is a big “however”, there is also a huge discrepancy between different makes of a same varieties. For example, in the article that mbanu cited, where they describe Wuyi Rougui as warm, for successfully treating a “cold invasion”. 
    Firstly, there are in existence a wide range of fire finishes for Rou Gui. The maocha of Rougui itself is actually one of the coldest kind amongst all Wuyi oolongs. Passing it through a different fire turns it into a tea name that can describe a range of “cool” to “warm” character, as Chawang has described. This phenomenon is not unique within the material kingdom of TCM. For example, the popular ingredient licorice root can be of different cool-warm nature dependent on what kind of heat-treatment it has undergone.
    Driving a so-called “Cold-invasion” can be achieved by almost all traditional style oolongs (ie Wuyi, Phoenix or old style Paochong) cool or warm. It is rather more dependent on the “foundation” of the patient for using a warmer or cooler, rather than on whether it is a “cold” or “heat”- invasion. Basically it is the “dissipation of surface-invasion” function of such tea that is working. Most of the time it is the neutral but slightly cooler oolongs that works better in such capacity. A very warm oolong, such as an old style, high fired type rougui would be too “warm” that there could even be a “surface heat” that is further trapping the “cold-invasion” and thus hindering the dissipation of it.
    That is why it is a traditional wisdom that when an old style Wuyi is used, it is preferred to be a matured one, which warmth is toned down or even neutralized through maturity.
    Going back to pancakes’ point, so there really is not an order there if it is based on the color of the leaves in terms of “TCM” progression. It is all dependent on the make and nature combined. This is particularly true when there is more personal and micro-regional styles arising in recent years. Similar thing can be said of for puer and black tea, and the relationship amongst all these. In another word, the degree of fermentation/oxidation is just one element affecting the result. It works with the firing style, maturity, and the very nature of the raw tealeaves ( as dependent on the cultivar and leaf maturity) are some other variations that I have observed to have contributed to the final result.
    in reply to: Foam #9446
    Leo
    Participant

    I know that is confusing. Theoretically blacks and oolongs are oxidized through the catalytic actions of the leaves’ enzymes. However, fungal spores exist all around us. Their activities on the tealeaves basically cannot be avoided. No one has (as far as I know) done any quantitative study of the amount of biochemical changes caused specifically by these spores. However, the same thing can be said of almost anything that happens not in a totally sterilized environment. That should be 99% of human activities. 

    Fungal content and bacteria in tea are tested by a standard almost as demanding as vegetable used for your salad, so there should be no worry about it. A customer of mine used to eat oolong leaves (before steeping for tea) like potato chips as she watched tv. I worry more about caffeine overdosage for her more than anything else 😉
    Leo
    Participant

    I followed up:

    Hello (Participant A), very nice of you to respond. For us in the tea community to quote so called scientific reports with responsibility, it is important to understand the nature and details of each: where it is published, how it is studied and data arrived, who is sponsoring the study etc. The one you quoted has not been published in any respectable scientific journal and it is only one study done in vitro with quite an elementary setting.
    Cross referencing datas and different findings from different sources is an important job for us if we are to advocate tea against this trend of bottled beverages and instant glorification. Or else it just back-fires at ourselves, our business.
    If you read related articles and the referenced materials in the articles in the Tea Guardian site, you’ll find the answer as to why thearubigin is not established as an effective antioxidant. If there is anything more effective in black tea, it is the theaflavins. The vast majority of tea produced in Sri Lanka is low on that, while those from Darjeeling, some from Assam and some from other Chinese regions are much higher in that.
    I’ll realign this discussion with the title of oolong here by citing an example of oolong study to illustrate how fragile it is to quote only one vitro study for making a conclusion for us to promote tea:
    Angela Li was very interested in oolong tea because of where her parents came from it was oolong country. When she was in F4 (equivalent to grade 10 or 11), she did an experiment using extracted cancer cells from rodents and tea liquids from various tealeaves she bought in the local market. She found that oolong is most effective in reversing the growth of the cancer cells esp under certain drinkable strength.
    She won a first prize in an international youth science competition and a distant star has been named after her.
    I, for one, would not use her report to tell my clients that oolong tea is the most effective in fighting cancer. You can read how I quote various reports in the topic at the Tea Guardian site: https://www.teaguardian.com/health/defending_against_cancers.html
    I’d like to be even more academic and responsible than what is there, but there is also the need to balance popular reading. I hope now you see my point.
    Leo
    Participant

    Participant A commented:

    Thanks, Leo, for your comments and the teaguardian article; however, the article does not state that thearubigin has not been found to be an effective antioxidant, rather that it has not been isolated in health studies (which is quite a different matter). The Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity of green and black tea has been measured, with the capacity of black tea being slightly higher than that of green (see Tea for Health by Tissa Amarakoon, Tea Research Institute of Sri Lanka, 2004).

    Leo
    Participant

    I responded: 

    Thearubgin has not been found as an effective antioxidant, while it is commonly known in the science community that tea catechins, such as EGCG, actually work. You can read a bit more in this and related articles: 
    As for what oolong (the original posting was started by someone commenting on the health benefits of oolong) really is, here is a primer for those others who want to read or write further about the topic: 
    Leo
    Participant

    On that note, refer to the Tea Guardian in the chapter on quality basics, four pages starting: 

    in reply to: Is tea sustainable? #9431
    Leo
    Participant

    I forgot: reference this Tea Guardian article: 

    in reply to: Is tea sustainable? #9430
    Leo
    Participant

    Thx for posting the article. The issue is exactly one major reason why tea plucking daily wages have gone up so rapidly in recent years. This year, some regions report 150 RMB (approx $21) a day and food, boarding, and traveling provided.

    The interesting thing is although the report cited an Anxi county story, the photo of the leaf gatherers is in some other region using a cutter (the tea trees are not oolong cultivars too), which traditional oolong regions do not employ. It actually raises a significant question, whether the editor of that article intends it or not: are we going to see tea production costing going the extremes — traditional hand-plucked teas becoming extremely expensive because of the rising cost of labour, while the majority of the market will be forced to cut leaf teas? Or are we already “progressing” in this direction?
    in reply to: kombucha #9423
    Leo
    Participant

    mbanu,

    Thank you for sharing the references. William Ukers has been a hero but we all know the accuracy of our knowledge improves with time as more and more scholars share efforts in improving the understanding of things.
    Quite many years ago I took notice of this “mushroom” tea trend in the West. The kombucha that is popular in the West today has not been well documented here in the East. As a matter of fact, I cannot personally find any historical writing about it in the Chinese language. Yet it is presumed that this comes from the East. Your reference is really contemporary.
    That’s okay. It really is not my concern that there are new flavours of bottled drinks somewhere in the market. There are new ones almost every other week anyway. It is my concern though, that it has the association of tea and is potentially toxic and is not health contributing as it claims so loudly to be. There are quite a number of official announcements disqualifying the claims, but I think you may like to read this more accessible one on the net by NYU:
    The thousand years of human heritage has left for us a lot of treasures and it is up to us to select those that is worth our continual efforts in developing. Tea is one. As for kombucha, I have much doubt in it.
    in reply to: Raw puerh vs shu cha #9403
    Leo
    Participant

    Right on. However, the final quality s hugely affected by not only the original quality of the leaves, but also the way the tea is stored and matured.

Viewing 10 posts - 231 through 240 (of 348 total)